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November/December 1999 | Contents
reflections on the century
'Sins and Sinners'
DAVID HALBERSTAM: Muckraking was very easy, in a way, at the turn of the century.
The especially sinister companies were really doing easily identifiable, egregious
things. Now, corporations have gotten more sophisticated. It's not as egregious
and it's slicker. Instead of the old, brutal corporation, you've got the new
slick, modern corporation. Disney, for example, is a giant corporation that's
also a major — allegedly — journalistic company. One of the good, new, modern
questions is: Can it investigate itself? Because we have met the enemy and he
is us.
KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL: Corporations may be slicker today in what they're able
to do but so are the media. The First Amendment may become more the property
of corporations than the property of the media in its adversarial role with
government. Some of these corporations are now media companies. Who will investigate
them? It may come to a point where there might be Karetsu — some kind of agreement
against predatory investigative journalism.
MORLEY SAFER: We're running out of outrage. Our viewers and readers really
can't get stimulated any more by industrial pollution stories, or by further
massacre and starvation in Africa, or by many of the other stories that were
the high points of this century.
Vietnam and 'Healthy Skepticism'
DAVID HALBERSTAM: In Vietnam, the press was an early warning
signal that the war didn't work. The group of young print people who went out
there thirty-seven years ago did their job and honored our profession. There's
no great nobility in that. We did the right thing. But it took a long time for
the message to come home because we were up against generational attitudes that
had lasted since World War II, in which generals and high public officials told
the truth. So Vietnam didn't turn around because of the reporters. It turned around
because of the battlefield valor of the other side. There were a lot of factors
that contributed. It wasn't the press that lost the war. That excuse became a
convenient crutch for certain people in the military. When they had a public forum,
they would blame us.
DAVID HALBERSTAM: The reporting from Vietnam actually was quite good. The
failure was in the reporting from Washington. State Department reporters and
Defense Department reporters did not go into the interior of the bureaucracy
to find the people who would have given them a very good, darker portrait —
which would have coincided with what we were reporting. The newsmagazines, particularly,
had good reporting from Vietnam that got sanitized by the stuff coming out of
the Washington lying machine.
MORLEY SAFER: In television, we were at odds in Vietnam with what our colleagues
in Washington were reporting. We were appalled because it all seemed like government
handouts. I don't think the press lost the war. The war lost itself. Americans
had never sat through a war that long. We win our wars quickly. Stalemate, or
just sheer battle losses, lost the war.
Civil rights and the Media DAVID HALBERSTAM: I think there was a moment, starting with the civil rights movement in the late fifties, through Vietnam and Watergate, where the press brought a jarring definition of America home to ordinary citizens — that America was not as it was portrayed in the John Wayne movies, always 'America the good."
LES PAYNE: During the first half of the century, up until the 1930s, you had, on the average, one black being lynched a week — and the press writing about it but not really making much of it. You had Atlanta newspapers in 1904 actually inciting a race riot that killed twenty-five blacks. The press had a very sorry record in terms of covering what was happening to African-Americans. Beginning with the Montgomery bus boycott, however, the media began to get its legs under it. That was a pivotal point, in the sense that the media made all the difference. Television was there with its im me diacy — pictures of German shepherds attacking children and water hoses plastering women against buildings.
DAVID HALBERSTAM: The civil rights movement is a way of reflecting on the media and this society. It starts roughly ten years after World War II, a war fought for democracy. The key moment is Brown v. Board of Edu cation, which is not just a school board ruling. It is an end-of-segregation ruling. It is a green light for the national media to say, this is a story. Things that weren't a story before, now they're a story. You had a generation of young journalists covering it — many of them from the south, most of whom had served in World War II — who had a new, rather modern vision of America, namely that the old feudalism was unacceptable. They were willing to risk their lives. You had the coming of television and television's need for a good story, and this was a great, dramatic story. And you had great new modern post-war leadership of young black ministers led by Martin Luther King, but he was hardly the only one. So the coming together of all these forces meant that society was ripe. That's why that was such a golden moment for the press. Everything was in order.
GWEN IFILL: The most enduring stories in journalism are the ones where you can't point to an Emmett Till, or you can't point to Brown v. Board of Edu cation. You point to a layer of events which over time have altered the way we view each other. Watergate was important not only because the president was forced to resign, but because it changed the way we thought about government and covered politics. People began looking much more cynically at the way government runs.
Making Foreign News Interesting
LES PAYNE: Foreign news can be made interesting, once you overcome the ossified
leadership at some media companies. The younger generation will rise up in reaction
to the kind of stalemate that we find in the media. There's a way to cover the
Kosovo situation and East Timor so that our readers will be interested. We keep
talking about 'globalization" both in terms of the technology and the economy,
yet we in the media have not dedicated ourselves strongly, irreversibly enough
to exploit that. In the U.S., one out of every ten Americans is foreign born
— not second, third generation, but foreign born. In New York, three out of
every ten New Yorkers are foreign born. And yet you have editors sitting around
saying foreign news is not of interest to readers and viewers. Newspaper people
complain about their circulation going down and down and down. I would imagine
there's a correlation there. I think it would be very useful if we broke the
stranglehold that some of these middle-aged, powerful dinosaurs in newsrooms
have on making all the key decisions — not allowing the fresh wind of youth
and vigor.
The Great Disconnect JOHN SEIGENTHALER: Public opinion polls and letters to the editor and commentary
from people interviewed on the street indicate that there is, at present, this
great chasm of disagreement between journalists and the public about what is
important. The public is saying more and more: 'I'm not interested in that.
Why do they keep giving me this garbage." I can't remember another time
in my long experience when there has been this disconnect — this great gap of
perception as to whether journalists are making the right judgments about what
is important to the public.
GWEN IFILL: The disconnect is partly the result of what our jobs are as journalists. We're information gatherers. One of the big changes in the last fifty years is that people can now get their own information from a number of different sources. One of the most important stories in the last hundred years is the creation of the Internet. People no longer need to come to us for information. One of my pet peeves is that they do not distinguish between the information they get from Oprah Winfrey and the information they get from journalists. We have to adjust how we gather and disseminate news to take into account the fact that people are getting their information from all of these different sources that have nothing to do with us.
MORLEY SAFER: The supposed 'unpopularity" of the press is based on material that the audience cannot keep its eyes off of. Yes, the press went too far on Lewinsky. But CNN and the cable channels, which usually don't get much of an audience, never had higher ratings. So the polls make no sense whatsoever. People will respond in a certain, kind of knee-jerk way: 'Yeah, I hear the press is going too far so I guess we shouldn't like them." But they cannot stop watching.
JOHN SEIGENTHALER: Mistakes, and we make a lot of them, have been the absolute bane of the journalistic craft. But I do believe that journalists in the mainstream are making a greater effort than ever before to recapture their credibility. I think they are aware of the doubt that exists between them and the news-consuming public. And I do believe that never before have we made such an effort to focus on why we lost our credibility and what we have to do to regain it.
GWEN IFILL: It's heartening that we're actually thinking more about how to regain journalistic credibility because everyone does have a sense that it's slipping out of our control — that we have all this information and ways of getting it out, yet we're not telling the story well. People are still going to come to us for news, but not if we just keep throwing it out there willy-nilly. Yes, it's terrible that the Web sites have beat us to the punch, and some journalists are now saying it's not important to have the story first. I think we're going to hear more of that just because we can't stand the embarrassment. We like the idea that we are the great disseminator of the first draft of history.
JOHN SEIGENTHALER: There is a dark side to this society. And for some reason, it seems to me, more often than not, the press has run behind the curve as those dark shadows have emerged. How long did it take us in this century to give women the right to vote? There were some in the press who were in the forefront of that drive. How long did it take us to realize what we had done to the Nisei, the Japanese-Americans during World War II whom we incarcerated in our version of concentration camps? How long did it take us to get on to Joe McCarthy and the evil he perpetrated on this society? It does seem to me that it's difficult for the press even now to break through the shadows when there is fear or paranoia or concern. Throughout our history we've been victimized by our inability to put light where the shadows are — soon enough so that the public would understand. So while I think it's been a great time to be a journalist, I also think that if you look at our record, it's not always bright and shining.
JUDY WOODRUFF: I've just been reading Max Frankel's book and was reminded that when the early stories started coming out of Germany and the rest of Europe as to what Hitler was up to, even the vaunted New York Times was reluctant to print them. They didn't want to believe it. It was relegated to the back pages for the longest time. Earlier, in the period leading up to the Depression, the press wasn't doing a very good job of shining a light on that impending crisis. If it had, maybe regulations would have been imposed that would have softened it.
MORLEY SAFER: My concern is that the fringe is going mainstream on the Internet — this grab bag that no one has a clue how to deal with, or regulate or legislate or control in any way. And my concern is about access to news in these ever weaker media — newspapers, magazines, television, which are becoming ever more fractured, but where there is some vestigial sense of responsibility. But the biggest thing coming down the line is an out-of-control monster with no sense of responsibility.
JULES WITCOVER: Most people don't have any kind of discriminating filter for the overwhelming amount of information coming to them. Unless there is more intelligence brought to the examining of information the result can be dangerous. When important stories that have a core of seriousness fall into the hands of talk-show fanatics, then the function that we are supposed to perform is lost.
JOHN SEIGENTHALER: There is some confusion. Is Rush Limbaugh a conveyor of news? Is Larry King? Matt Drudge? When I was a child, every Sunday night it was Walter Winchell on the radio saying, 'Mr. and Mrs. North and South America and all the ships at sea, let's go to press!" J. Edgar Hoover once told me he thought Walter Winchell was the greatest journalist he'd ever known. Was Winchell an entertainer? That's about all he was. But he certainly posed as a journalist. For a long time movies characterized journalists as sort of Walter Winchells with press cards in their hats on the telephone saying, 'Hello, sweetheart, get me rewrite." There are young men and women coming into journalism who may be hustlers. But there are also young men and women in the profession right now who are better than I ever was. And I think they're going to be a great credit to journalism in the next century.
JULES WITCOVER: One of the things my generation has been criticized for is
that we sometimes knew things but didn't report them because we were too close
to the sources. The classic example is John F. Kennedy and womanizing. As a
junior reporter at the time, I knew nothing about that. And no reporter I knew
knew anything about it. But I don't believe if we knew about it at the time
we would have reported it because the standards were so different. A public
figure could do whatever he wanted if it didn't affect his conduct on the job.
That's a valid standard that has been skewed greatly over the last century.
We've learned from some presidents that knowing about their character is very
important. Nonetheless, some of the things reported in the Monica Lewinsky story
I don't believe we had a valid reason to put out. Journalism has changed greatly
in that regard during the century. Standards of what is considered legitimate
to report have been lowered.
Looking to the Future MORLEY SAFER: I think we are witnessing the last gasps of the three evening
news programs on the three traditional networks. I think that's over — a network
with its serious editors, its serious producers and reporters telling you the
important stories of the day in twenty-two minutes. That was an important institution
in this country for a number of years. I think that's going to be gone before
we hit 2005.
DAVID HALBERSTAM: There's a great Langston Hughes poem, 'Curb Your Dog."
Curb your dog, don't let your dog curb you. The great change in media is driven
by technology and nobody really knows how to bring the traditional restraints
and strengths of journalism to the new technology. It's out there — the fragmentation
of television, the twenty-four-hour news cycle, the Internet, the decline of
the editing function. What's declining, for the moment at least, are standards
— the rise of a kind of culture of allegation in journalism rather than in confirmation
of stories. And I think that's a real crisis in the profession.
I presume that there will be survivors who will emerge from this. And they'll
be the people who will be the more accurate, thoughtful purveyors of news and
information with the new technology.
LES PAYNE: I'm optimistic. I think there will be an insurgency and that it
will take advantage of the new technology. I think the insurgents will have
standards and will return to the concept of providing news that is vital to
a democracy and to the appetites of the American public. I subscribe to the
notion of news being important, vital, previously undisclosed, verified information
that someone powerful wants to keep secret. Everything else is advertisement.
This withering away of the news business is from within. We are presiding over
it. But the insurgency will rise and I think it will be very useful, very vital,
and will take advantage of the technology. What you are seeing is the dinosaurs
and the profit-makers holding onto something that they helped in large part
to corrupt — because they lost their nerve.
JULES WITCOVER: One of the problems looking into the next century is what
to do about the issue of entertainment as journalism. Too often, younger members
of our profession want to be personalities, celebrities, and have forgotten
what they are in journalism for. They forget that we're supposed to be observers
and reporters and not part of the story. Unless we emulate the best of our breed
of the twentieth century who saw their job not as participants in the story
but as reporters of the facts, we're going to have more and more of this mixture
of journalism and entertainment.
KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL: I'm an optimist. I think you will see the insurgency
through the Internet, but also through people — Americans who are fed up. More
and more polls, if we believe in such things, show that Americans are ready
for some kind of media reform — whether it's a new form of anti-trust, whether
it's looking at regulatory agencies that have lost their meaning and increasingly
seem corrupted. But there will be happy remnants of those of us who wake up
every morning and say: 'What can we do to inform an American public?"
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